Lawyers Who Learn

#25 The Art of Legal Storytelling: From Fifty Shades to Stand-Up Comedy

This engaging episode of "Lawyers Who Learn" features a conversation between host David Schnurman and Brent, a business litigation and entertainment lawyer at Bell Nunnally in Dallas. The discussion reveals Brent's fascinating journey from ESPN production to law, highlighting how his media background has shaped his approach to legal storytelling.
The conversation explores Brent's innovative approach to continuing legal education, including his popular courses "Ethics Lessons from HBO's Succession" and "Ethics from Suits." Brent shares how he transforms traditionally dry ethics content into engaging presentations by incorporating popular culture references and storytelling techniques. He also discusses his experience working on the high-profile Fifty Shades of Grey litigation case, where he learned valuable lessons about legal storytelling from his mentor Mike Farris, who taught him to present legal arguments in clear, straightforward language that anyone could understand.
Throughout the episode, Brent offers insights into balancing a demanding legal career with personal pursuits, including his recent venture into stand-up comedy at open mic nights during business trips. He discusses the challenges of managing stress, the importance of physical exercise, and finding time for family commitments while maintaining a successful legal practice.
The discussion provides valuable lessons about the power of creative presentation in legal work, the importance of finding one's authentic style in the courtroom, and how lessons from entertainment and media can enhance legal practice. Brent's energy and positive attitude shine through as he shares practical advice for lawyers looking to break free from traditional approaches to legal practice and presentation.

#24 Why Your Role Should Be Unrecognizable in 18 Months

This podcast episode of Lawyers Who Learn features an engaging conversation between host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, and Jennifer Hill, CEO of ThoughtRiver, an AI-powered contract review company. The discussion delves into Hill's fascinating journey from teaching public speaking as a college freshman to becoming a lawyer and tech executive. As a longtime Lawline customer, Hill shares personal stories about how continuing legal education has impacted both her professional and personal life, including a compelling account of how a CLE course helped her advocate for her child during a school bullying incident.
The conversation explores Hill's experiences in Silicon Valley, her work supporting women entrepreneurs in New York's emerging tech scene, and her path to leading ThoughtRiver. She offers valuable insights about professional growth, including her "6-month and 18-month rule" for career development, and shares perspectives on AI's role in making legal services more accessible. The discussion is enriched by Hill's international background, as she reflects on how travel and cross-cultural experiences have shaped her outlook and leadership style.
Throughout the interview, Hill emphasizes the importance of continuous learning and embracing change, particularly in the context of AI adoption. The podcast concludes with a discussion about Lawline's future plans for AI integration and Hill's encouraging advice for lawyers looking to adapt to technological change: "Don't start with perfect. Just start." The conversation provides a rich exploration of the intersection between legal practice, technology, and lifelong learning.

#23 Raised $2.5M in 30 Days, Sold Her Company, Then Everything Changed.

Lawyers Who Learn podcast features an in-depth conversation between host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, and Haley Altman, a remarkable figure in legal tech who has successfully navigated multiple career transitions. The episode explores Haley's journey from aspiring doctor and cancer researcher to corporate lawyer, legal tech founder, and M&A executive.
Starting with her early pivot from medicine to law, Haley shares how her love of learning and problem-solving drove her career choices. She discusses her decade as an M&A attorney, becoming one of the fastest partners at Ice Miller, and then founding Doxly, which she later sold to Litera. The conversation provides unique insights into her transition to heading M&A at Litera, where she leveraged her extensive network in the legal tech community to complete multiple acquisitions.
Throughout the discussion, Haley opens up about balancing her professional achievements with personal life, including raising two daughters as a single parent. The conversation takes an intimate turn as both host and guest reflect on work-life balance, the importance of acknowledging one's accomplishments, and finding personal freedom alongside professional success. The episode concludes with Haley sharing her multiple potential next steps, both professionally and personally, highlighting her continued drive for growth and new experiences.

#22 Learning from Teaching 120 CLEs on Digital Evidence Secrets

In an era where your smartphone, fitness tracker, and even your doorbell could become evidence in court, understanding digital forensics has never been more crucial. This episode of Lawyers Who Learn features Brian Chase, a leading digital forensics expert from ArcherHall who reveals his strategy of using CLE courses as a powerful business development tool, delivering over 120 presentations annually.
Brian shares an inside look at developing and teaching CLE courses, particularly those focused on cutting-edge technology issues. The conversation explores several of his popular Lawline courses, including "Truth or Tech: AI-Generated Evidence," "My Ex Hacked Me: The Truth About Cyberstalking," "Your Home is Spying on You: Smart Device Data in Litigation," and "Location Data in Litigation." Through these courses, he breaks down complex technological concepts, from how Fitbit data can become crucial evidence in personal injury cases to the challenges courts face in authenticating AI-generated content.
Drawing from his experience as both a former law firm owner and current digital forensics leader, Brian provides practical insights about teaching technical topics to legal audiences, while sharing the surprisingly accessible ways attorneys can start teaching their own CLE courses.

#21 Learning to Pivot: From BigLaw Litigator to The Billing Coach

In this revealing conversation, host David Schnurman interviews Molly Kremer, "The Billing Coach," who transformed her career from BigLaw litigator to successful legal coach.
Molly shares her journey from practicing insurance defense litigation at AmLaw 100 firm Cozen O'Connor to building her unique coaching practice focused on helping attorneys improve their billing habits. She discusses discovering her niche in coaching after experiencing her own struggles with time management and billing during COVID, and how she built her practice primarily through LinkedIn content and marketing.
The conversation offers valuable insights into the business of legal coaching, including details about pricing models, client acquisition, and the shift from large law firms to boutique practices. Molly also reveals practical tips about using tools like Claude AI and Authored Up for content creation, and discusses her innovative approaches like "The Billing Hour" - a communal time for attorneys to catch up on their billing.
This episode provides a masterclass in career transition and building a successful coaching practice in the legal industry, while addressing the often taboo subject of legal billing practices.

#20 Learning Through Disruption: How Access Lex is Reshaping Legal Education

David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline speaks with Chris Chapman, CEO of Access Lex Institute, a nonprofit with a billion-dollar endowment focused on legal education. Chris details how Access Lex grew from a student loan provider to an organization that now runs multiple programs supporting law students and schools. He explains their bar prep platform Helix, which has helped reduce market prices by $1000 dollars, and discusses the significant changes coming with the 2026 Next Gen bar exam - a shift from memorization-based testing to practical legal skills assessment.
The conversation examines the structural challenges driving high law school costs, including federal loan policies and accreditation requirements. Chris shares insights on potential solutions, from expanding online education to allowing non-JD professionals to provide certain legal services. He also discusses Access Lex's MAX program, which provides financial education to law students across 200 law schools, and addresses how AI and market changes may reshape legal education and bar preparation in the coming years.
The episode covers key developments affecting the future of legal education, bar preparation, and the broader legal services market.

#19 Learning to Create a Law Practice That Runs Without You

In this Lawyers Who Learn episode, host David Schnurman speaks with Beau Atkins, founder of Evolve Law, about transforming the traditional law firm model through entrepreneurial thinking. Atkins shares his journey from considering leaving law in 2019 to building a successful family law practice based entirely on fixed-fee and subscription pricing, targeting the underserved 79% of people who need legal services but are intimidated by traditional pricing structures.
The discussion explores multiple facets of Atkins' innovative approach: his systematic quarterly learning themes, his use of LinkedIn as a professional journal for networking and accountability, and his implementation of the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) in running his practice. He details how structured Level 10 meetings and 90-day goals have helped scale his firm to 5 attorneys and 12 total staff members while reducing his direct legal work to 4-8 hours per week.
Atkins shares his ambitious vision of achieving "1000x" growth, inspired by the H&R Block model of democratizing professional services. Through his partnership with HelloDivorce and focus on automating family law forms, he aims to make legal services more accessible while reducing unnecessary suffering for children of divorce - a mission stemming from his own childhood experiences.
The conversation provides valuable insights for lawyers looking to innovate their practices through entrepreneurial thinking, systematic learning, and modern business practices.

#18 Learning Through Listening: Building The Legal Tech Fund Summit

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman sits down with Zach Posner, Managing Partner at The Legal Tech Fund, for an insightful conversation about building relationships and fostering innovation in the legal technology space. Posner shares his journey from edtech entrepreneur to legal tech investor, offering a unique perspective as the first non-attorney guest on the show.
The conversation delves deep into how Posner and his team manage 15-20 daily conversations with industry stakeholders, building a vast network that has led to investments in over 60 companies. He discusses the creation of The Legal Tech Fund Summit, a distinctive conference that brings together CEOs, investors, and innovators in the legal tech space without the typical commercial pressures of sponsorships and vendor booths.
Posner offers candid insights about the challenges and opportunities in early-stage investing, including the lengthy feedback cycles and the transformative potential of AI and regulatory changes in the legal industry. Throughout the discussion, he emphasizes the importance of relationship-building and knowledge-sharing in accelerating industry growth, exemplified by his team's commitment to publishing their investment theses and market research openly through legaltechfund.com.
This conversation provides valuable lessons for both legal professionals and entrepreneurs about the power of continuous learning, authentic relationship building, and the future of legal technology.

#17 Learning Through Building Legal Tech Businesses

In this engaging episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David interviews Basha Rubin, co-founder and CEO of Priori Legal, a tech-enabled legal marketplace connecting corporate clients with vetted attorneys. Having started Priori in 2013, Basha shares candid insights from her 12-year entrepreneurial journey, from initial conception to growing it into a successful platform with 8,000+ legal professionals.
The conversation covers the evolution of Priori from serving small businesses to enterprise clients, the challenges and lessons of raising $25 million in venture capital, and the delicate balance between building a billion-dollar company versus maintaining ownership control. Basha offers valuable advice for attorneys on effectively presenting themselves to clients and discusses how the platform vets and matches lawyers with corporate legal needs.
The discussion also explores the impact of remote work on company culture, the implementation of AI in legal tech, and broader industry trends. The episode concludes with an insightful exchange about work-life balance and the importance of personal freedom in building a sustainable business. Whether you're a legal tech entrepreneur, practicing attorney, or interested in the future of legal services, this conversation offers valuable perspectives on innovation and growth in the legal industry.

#16 Learning Through Productizing Legal Services

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, former law firm owner and current CEO of Bonterms Todd Smithline shares his two-decade journey of running a successful fixed-fee law practice serving major tech companies, including Facebook (now Meta) and Adobe. Todd breaks down how he transformed traditional hourly billing into a predictable subscription model by focusing on productizing legal services and creating reusable knowledge assets. He explains why law firms should think beyond pricing to focus on service packaging, client relationships, and value delivery.
Key discussion points include:
How to transition from hourly to fixed-fee billing while maintaining profitability
Building trust through month-to-month commitments and service guarantees
Creating reusable legal tools and processes to scale effectively
The impact of AI on legal services and why lawyers must adapt
Practical advice for attorneys looking to modernize their practice models
Whether you're a solo practitioner or managing partner, this episode offers valuable insights on reimagining legal service delivery in an evolving marketplace. Todd's candid discussion of both successes and challenges provides a realistic roadmap for attorneys seeking to build more efficient, client-centric practices.