Lawyers Who Learn

#50 Reimagining Divorce: Learning to Combine Tech, Law, and Empathy

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Erin Levine, founder of Hello Divorce - an innovative platform transforming the divorce process. Erin shares her journey from sexual abuse survivor to family law attorney to legal tech entrepreneur, revealing how her personal experience with the legal system as a teen shaped her mission to make divorce less contentious, more affordable, and more accessible.
Erin explains how a pivotal moment with a client who won custody but regretted the litigation process inspired her to create Hello Divorce as a side hustle while still managing her law firm. What began as an experiment to see if people could successfully navigate divorce with the right tools has grown into a venture-backed company that has processed over 10,000 divorces and is now available in all 50 states.
The conversation explores the challenges of building and scaling a legal tech company, including raising $7.5 million in venture capital, navigating regulatory compliance, and creating a model where both consumers and lawyers benefit. Erin discusses how she overcame imposter syndrome, the importance of networking in her entrepreneurial journey, and how she's balanced business growth with personal challenges, including a recent cancer diagnosis.
Throughout the interview, Erin reflects on what it means to reinvent her career multiple times while staying true to her mission of improving access to justice. She shares insights on effective leadership, building a legal tech company that serves both lawyers and clients, and how her approach differs from traditional divorce litigation by focusing on better outcomes through technology and human support.

#49 The Courage to Scale Back: Finding More Satisfaction with Less Work

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Laura Cowan, founder of 2-Hour Lifestyle Lawyer (2HLL) and author of the newly released book "Lifestyle Lawyer Revolution." Laura shares her fascinating journey from working as a CPA at Ernst & Young and hedge funds to making a bold career change at age 35 to attend law school.
After her mother's passing in 2015, Laura established a successful estate planning practice in New York City, growing it to a seven-figure business within three years. When COVID hit, she relocated to Rhode Island and was forced to reimagine her practice virtually. This transition led to a profound realization: she could maintain a successful practice working just a few hours a day while enjoying a more balanced lifestyle.
Laura explains how this epiphany evolved into her coaching business, 2HLL, where she now teaches other attorneys how to create and build similar virtual estate planning practices that prioritize lifestyle while still generating substantial income. Her framework, which focuses on achieving $10,000 monthly revenue through just 2-4 clients per month, currently has a waitlist and has attracted over 500 lawyers to her program.
Throughout the interview, Laura emphasizes the importance of estate planning workshops for client acquisition, the value of investing in coaching, and her philosophy that "a rising tide lifts all ships." She discusses how her approach differs from other legal coaching programs that focus solely on maximizing revenue, noting that many attorneys are seeking balance rather than just financial growth. The conversation concludes with insights about her new book, which codifies her unique approach to practicing law in the post-COVID era.

#48 SEO to CEO: Building BluShark Digital from a Law Firm's Marketing Department

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, speaks with Seth Price, founder of Price Benowitz LLP and BluShark Digital. Seth shares his entrepreneurial journey from GW Law graduate to building a 50-lawyer firm and one of the legal industry's most successful digital marketing agencies.
Seth reveals how he and his law school friend created a "divide and conquer" partnership from day one – with his partner handling the legal work while Seth focused on marketing and operations. This unconventional arrangement allowed Seth to build the firm's digital presence when SEO was in its infancy, eventually growing his internal marketing team to seven people before spinning it off as BluShark Digital in 2016.
Throughout the conversation, Seth emphasizes the importance of following your energy – focusing on what gives you enthusiasm rather than what drains you. For Seth, this meant recognizing early that traditional legal practice wasn't his passion, while building relationships and solving problems energized him. He discusses how this philosophy has guided his business decisions, from hiring to client acquisition.
Seth also shares valuable insights about business development in the legal space, highlighting the power of conference networking over cold calling. He attends approximately 12 conferences annually, viewing them as opportunities to build relationships that may take years to develop into business. Seth explains how this approach has helped BluShark Digital grow to serve over 300 law firms nationwide.
The episode concludes with Seth's thoughts on leadership and service, including his decision to bring futurist Peter Shankman on board to help his team stay ahead of emerging trends in technology and marketing.

#47 Building the Better Lawyer: A Chief Innovation Officer's Strategy for Winning Clients

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Evan Shenkman, Chief Knowledge and Innovation Officer at Fisher Phillips. Evan shares his journey from employment litigation attorney to legal innovation leader, and discusses how his firm embraces cutting-edge legal technology.
The discussion centers on Fisher Phillips' pioneering role as the first law firm to test Case Text's Co-Counsel AI tool, and explores how Evan has established at least a dozen similar relationships with legal tech startups since then. He explains the mutual benefits of these partnerships: law firms gain early access to innovative tools while startups receive valuable feedback from practicing attorneys to improve their products.
Evan offers insights into how these legal tech tools enhance attorney performance, emphasizing that the goal isn't just to save money but to make lawyers more effective. He details his firm's approach to training attorneys on AI tools through live demonstrations, practical use cases, and ongoing support from his growing team of 15 knowledge management professionals.
The conversation also covers how innovation impacts client relationships, with Evan sharing examples of winning significant client business specifically because of the firm's technology initiatives. He discusses the practical challenges of implementation, the importance of building relationships in the legal tech community, and how he balances a demanding travel schedule with family life and personal wellbeing.
Throughout the episode, Evan provides valuable perspective on how law firms can position themselves at the forefront of legal technology while creating tangible value for clients, attorneys, and the business itself.

#46 Breaking Into the Walled Garden: How an Outsider Gained the Trust of 110 Am Law Firms

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Ted Theodoropoulos, founder and CEO of Infodash, the leading cloud intranet and extranet platform for law firms. Ted shares his entrepreneurial journey from starting a collection agency during college to working at Microsoft and Bank of America before launching his own company focused on legal technology solutions.
Ted discusses his transition from a professional services model to a product-based business, explaining how he strategically secured client funding to build his platform while maintaining equity in the company. He reveals the challenges of bootstrapping, including the personal toll it took on his health and family life, and how bringing on three partners helped create a more sustainable business model.
The conversation explores Ted's approach to building relationships in the legal industry - from conducting 22 roadshows in a single year to speaking at conferences and launching his "Legal Innovation Spotlight" podcast, which has become a key part of his thought leadership strategy. He offers practical advice on positioning yourself as an expert in the legal tech space, including maximizing downtime for learning, attending conferences, and creating valuable content that connects with decision-makers.
Throughout the interview, Ted emphasizes the importance of understanding law firm culture and challenges to innovation, his perspectives on equity sharing in startups, and his belief that the legal industry is at an inflection point with AI that will reshape traditional business models. As the 2024 recipient of the Innovative Leader of the Year award from the International Legal Technology Association, Ted provides valuable insights for entrepreneurs looking to succeed in the legal technology space.

#45 Speaking Engineer: A GC's Guide to Useful Legal Advice

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with John Didday, Associate General Counsel for Product and Privacy at Zendesk. John shares his journey from starting at Quinn Emanuel to transitioning in-house at health tech and software companies, ultimately finding his way to Zendesk in 2019.
The discussion focuses on John's insights about being an effective legal advisor to non-lawyers in technology companies. He emphasizes the importance of communicating legal advice in practical, accessible ways to engineers and product managers, rather than overwhelming them with complex legal analysis. John explains how moving his desk to sit with the engineering team at a previous company transformed his understanding of their challenges and needs.
John also shares his recent experience teaching a law school course at UC Law San Francisco on "Product Counseling," which he created from scratch since no textbook existed on the topic. He details the process of designing the course, pitching it to the law school, and the challenges and rewards of teaching students about in-house legal work at tech companies.
Throughout the conversation, John and David discuss the use of AI tools in legal work, career transitions from law firms to in-house roles, and how teaching reinforced John's philosophy of giving practical, human-centered legal advice. The episode concludes with reflections on taking career risks and how focusing on making the most of current opportunities can lead to fulfilling career paths, even if they weren't initially planned.

#44 How Fastcase Built a Legal Research Revolution on Relationships, Not Venture Capital

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, talks with Ed Walters, co-founder of Fastcase and current Chief Strategy Officer at vLex, following a 2023 merger. The discussion traces Walters' remarkable journey from starting Fastcase with Phil Rosenthal in 2000 to building a legal research platform that disrupted established providers like Westlaw and LexisNexis.
Walters shares how Fastcase's mission to "democratize the law" led them to pioneer a bar association subscription model that gave 1.3 million attorneys access to affordable legal research. He details their bootstrap approach - attending more than 1,000 bar association meetings over 15 years - and the importance of building deep, genuine relationships within the legal community rather than simply raising venture capital.
The conversation explores how Fastcase expanded beyond basic legal research to include bankruptcy forms, docket tracking, analytics, and now AI tools through their Vincent platform. Throughout the episode, Walters emphasizes the crucial role his team played in Fastcase's success, particularly highlighting co-founder Phil Rosenthal (a former rocket scientist who worked with Stephen Hawking) and team members who helped build and maintain their bar association relationships.
Walters also discusses the decision to merge with vLex rather than sell, creating a global legal research platform now covering 110 countries with 350 employees across 17 time zones. He reflects on the importance of timing, luck, and perseverance in entrepreneurship, sharing insights about learning through teaching (he teaches AI and law courses at Georgetown and Chicago Law), and his personal productivity system inspired by Getting Things Done.
The episode provides a thoughtful exploration of how innovation, relationship-building, and team dynamics can transform an industry, even with limited resources and against established competitors.

#43 Lawyers Teaching Lawyers: The Five-Year Zoom Meeting That Keeps Growing

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Linda Maryanov, an estate planning and administration attorney with 40 years of experience who created the "Thursday Think Tank" - a virtual study group for trust and estates and elder law/special needs attorneys that began during COVID and has flourished for five years.
Linda shares how the Think Tank started almost accidentally in response to the pandemic's challenges. What began as a one-time Zoom meeting to discuss best practices for remote will executions quickly grew from 25 participants to many more, at first meeting weekly for two and a half years, eventually becoming twice-monthly sessions that host 75, 100, once 240 attorneys.
The conversation explores how Linda structures these sessions, alternating between expert speakers and "open mic" formats where participants can ask questions (on camera, or anonymously, if they wish), without fear of judgment. She explains how the Think Tank has created meaningful professional connections, opened communication channels between attorneys and court personnel, and provided a platform for knowledge sharing that transcends geographic boundaries.
Throughout the discussion, Linda emphasizes the professional generosity of the trusts and estates and elder law/special needs communities and why she considers this volunteer effort the most rewarding achievement of her career. She also offers insights into how similar study groups could be created for other practice areas, potentially providing a model for peer-to-peer learning that organizations like Lawline might help facilitate.
The episode highlights the power of organic community-building and the impact of creating spaces where lawyers can learn from each other in a collaborative, non-competitive environment.

#42 Reinventing Legal Learning: Lessons from SkillBurst’s Founder

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Steve Gluckman, a pioneer in legal e-learning who recently sold his company SkillBurst Interactive to Barbri. Though not a lawyer himself, Steve has spent over two decades developing innovative training solutions for law firms.
Steve shares his entrepreneurial journey from his early days at PwC to founding SkillBurst in 2013, which created customizable, interactive e-learning modules for law firms. He discusses the challenges of timing in business innovation, explaining how his first attempt at legal e-learning was too early for market adoption, but years later the industry was ready, leading to SkillBurst's success.
The conversation explores the post-acquisition emotional journey many entrepreneurs face, with Steve candidly discussing the unexpected emptiness he felt after selling his company. He reflects on how much of his identity was wrapped up in being a CEO and the process of figuring out "what's next" while already working on a new stealth-mode venture.
Throughout the episode, Steve offers valuable insights into building a successful business in the legal tech space, including his approach to product development, the importance of securing buy-in before building, and how making products "sticky" through customization led to impressive client retention rates. The discussion wraps up with thoughts on leadership and work-life balance, with both hosts sharing their perspectives on building businesses that create personal freedom.
 

#41 From Emergency Law to Medical Expert: How Eating Dirt Today Creates Momentum for Tomorrow

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Andy Jones, a Texas personal injury attorney who specializes in medical malpractice cases. Andy shares his journey from working at a high-volume car wreck firm—what he calls "emergency law"—to becoming a medical malpractice specialist at Sawicki Law, where he eventually became partner.
Andy offers valuable insights for attorneys at various career stages, from recent graduates to those looking to transition practice areas. He discusses how his early experience handling a medical malpractice case at his first firm inadvertently set him on his current path, illustrating how seemingly negative experiences can create positive momentum in one's career. He encourages new lawyers to "listen to your grades" while not letting them define you, and to be willing to "eat dirt" in a less-than-ideal position to gain valuable experience.
Throughout the conversation, Andy explains how his medical malpractice work has transformed him into a "difficult consumer of medical services" and shares how he became an EMT to better understand the medical field. He also discusses his teaching experience as an adjunct professor at UNT Dallas and his approach to creating valuable continuing legal education content.
The episode wraps up with a philosophical discussion about decision-making, with Andy sharing his favorite Theodore Roosevelt quote and reflecting on the Japanese Bushido concept of momentum shaping one's life journey.