Lawyers Who Learn

#47 Building the Better Lawyer: A Chief Innovation Officer's Strategy for Winning Clients

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Evan Shenkman, Chief Knowledge and Innovation Officer at Fisher Phillips. Evan shares his journey from employment litigation attorney to legal innovation leader, and discusses how his firm embraces cutting-edge legal technology.
The discussion centers on Fisher Phillips' pioneering role as the first law firm to test Case Text's Co-Counsel AI tool, and explores how Evan has established at least a dozen similar relationships with legal tech startups since then. He explains the mutual benefits of these partnerships: law firms gain early access to innovative tools while startups receive valuable feedback from practicing attorneys to improve their products.
Evan offers insights into how these legal tech tools enhance attorney performance, emphasizing that the goal isn't just to save money but to make lawyers more effective. He details his firm's approach to training attorneys on AI tools through live demonstrations, practical use cases, and ongoing support from his growing team of 15 knowledge management professionals.
The conversation also covers how innovation impacts client relationships, with Evan sharing examples of winning significant client business specifically because of the firm's technology initiatives. He discusses the practical challenges of implementation, the importance of building relationships in the legal tech community, and how he balances a demanding travel schedule with family life and personal wellbeing.
Throughout the episode, Evan provides valuable perspective on how law firms can position themselves at the forefront of legal technology while creating tangible value for clients, attorneys, and the business itself.

#46 Breaking Into the Walled Garden: How an Outsider Gained the Trust of 110 Am Law Firms

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Ted Theodoropoulos, founder and CEO of Infodash, the leading cloud intranet and extranet platform for law firms. Ted shares his entrepreneurial journey from starting a collection agency during college to working at Microsoft and Bank of America before launching his own company focused on legal technology solutions.
Ted discusses his transition from a professional services model to a product-based business, explaining how he strategically secured client funding to build his platform while maintaining equity in the company. He reveals the challenges of bootstrapping, including the personal toll it took on his health and family life, and how bringing on three partners helped create a more sustainable business model.
The conversation explores Ted's approach to building relationships in the legal industry - from conducting 22 roadshows in a single year to speaking at conferences and launching his "Legal Innovation Spotlight" podcast, which has become a key part of his thought leadership strategy. He offers practical advice on positioning yourself as an expert in the legal tech space, including maximizing downtime for learning, attending conferences, and creating valuable content that connects with decision-makers.
Throughout the interview, Ted emphasizes the importance of understanding law firm culture and challenges to innovation, his perspectives on equity sharing in startups, and his belief that the legal industry is at an inflection point with AI that will reshape traditional business models. As the 2024 recipient of the Innovative Leader of the Year award from the International Legal Technology Association, Ted provides valuable insights for entrepreneurs looking to succeed in the legal technology space.

#45 Speaking Engineer: A GC's Guide to Useful Legal Advice

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with John Didday, Associate General Counsel for Product and Privacy at Zendesk. John shares his journey from starting at Quinn Emanuel to transitioning in-house at health tech and software companies, ultimately finding his way to Zendesk in 2019.
The discussion focuses on John's insights about being an effective legal advisor to non-lawyers in technology companies. He emphasizes the importance of communicating legal advice in practical, accessible ways to engineers and product managers, rather than overwhelming them with complex legal analysis. John explains how moving his desk to sit with the engineering team at a previous company transformed his understanding of their challenges and needs.
John also shares his recent experience teaching a law school course at UC Law San Francisco on "Product Counseling," which he created from scratch since no textbook existed on the topic. He details the process of designing the course, pitching it to the law school, and the challenges and rewards of teaching students about in-house legal work at tech companies.
Throughout the conversation, John and David discuss the use of AI tools in legal work, career transitions from law firms to in-house roles, and how teaching reinforced John's philosophy of giving practical, human-centered legal advice. The episode concludes with reflections on taking career risks and how focusing on making the most of current opportunities can lead to fulfilling career paths, even if they weren't initially planned.

#44 How Fastcase Built a Legal Research Revolution on Relationships, Not Venture Capital

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, talks with Ed Walters, co-founder of Fastcase and current Chief Strategy Officer at vLex, following a 2023 merger. The discussion traces Walters' remarkable journey from starting Fastcase with Phil Rosenthal in 2000 to building a legal research platform that disrupted established providers like Westlaw and LexisNexis.
Walters shares how Fastcase's mission to "democratize the law" led them to pioneer a bar association subscription model that gave 1.3 million attorneys access to affordable legal research. He details their bootstrap approach - attending more than 1,000 bar association meetings over 15 years - and the importance of building deep, genuine relationships within the legal community rather than simply raising venture capital.
The conversation explores how Fastcase expanded beyond basic legal research to include bankruptcy forms, docket tracking, analytics, and now AI tools through their Vincent platform. Throughout the episode, Walters emphasizes the crucial role his team played in Fastcase's success, particularly highlighting co-founder Phil Rosenthal (a former rocket scientist who worked with Stephen Hawking) and team members who helped build and maintain their bar association relationships.
Walters also discusses the decision to merge with vLex rather than sell, creating a global legal research platform now covering 110 countries with 350 employees across 17 time zones. He reflects on the importance of timing, luck, and perseverance in entrepreneurship, sharing insights about learning through teaching (he teaches AI and law courses at Georgetown and Chicago Law), and his personal productivity system inspired by Getting Things Done.
The episode provides a thoughtful exploration of how innovation, relationship-building, and team dynamics can transform an industry, even with limited resources and against established competitors.

#43 Lawyers Teaching Lawyers: The Five-Year Zoom Meeting That Keeps Growing

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Linda Maryanov, an estate planning and administration attorney with 40 years of experience who created the "Thursday Think Tank" - a virtual study group for trust and estates and elder law/special needs attorneys that began during COVID and has flourished for five years.
Linda shares how the Think Tank started almost accidentally in response to the pandemic's challenges. What began as a one-time Zoom meeting to discuss best practices for remote will executions quickly grew from 25 participants to many more, at first meeting weekly for two and a half years, eventually becoming twice-monthly sessions that host 75, 100, once 240 attorneys.
The conversation explores how Linda structures these sessions, alternating between expert speakers and "open mic" formats where participants can ask questions (on camera, or anonymously, if they wish), without fear of judgment. She explains how the Think Tank has created meaningful professional connections, opened communication channels between attorneys and court personnel, and provided a platform for knowledge sharing that transcends geographic boundaries.
Throughout the discussion, Linda emphasizes the professional generosity of the trusts and estates and elder law/special needs communities and why she considers this volunteer effort the most rewarding achievement of her career. She also offers insights into how similar study groups could be created for other practice areas, potentially providing a model for peer-to-peer learning that organizations like Lawline might help facilitate.
The episode highlights the power of organic community-building and the impact of creating spaces where lawyers can learn from each other in a collaborative, non-competitive environment.

#42 Reinventing Legal Learning: Lessons from SkillBurst’s Founder

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Steve Gluckman, a pioneer in legal e-learning who recently sold his company SkillBurst Interactive to Barbri. Though not a lawyer himself, Steve has spent over two decades developing innovative training solutions for law firms.
Steve shares his entrepreneurial journey from his early days at PwC to founding SkillBurst in 2013, which created customizable, interactive e-learning modules for law firms. He discusses the challenges of timing in business innovation, explaining how his first attempt at legal e-learning was too early for market adoption, but years later the industry was ready, leading to SkillBurst's success.
The conversation explores the post-acquisition emotional journey many entrepreneurs face, with Steve candidly discussing the unexpected emptiness he felt after selling his company. He reflects on how much of his identity was wrapped up in being a CEO and the process of figuring out "what's next" while already working on a new stealth-mode venture.
Throughout the episode, Steve offers valuable insights into building a successful business in the legal tech space, including his approach to product development, the importance of securing buy-in before building, and how making products "sticky" through customization led to impressive client retention rates. The discussion wraps up with thoughts on leadership and work-life balance, with both hosts sharing their perspectives on building businesses that create personal freedom.
 

#41 From Emergency Law to Medical Expert: How Eating Dirt Today Creates Momentum for Tomorrow

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Andy Jones, a Texas personal injury attorney who specializes in medical malpractice cases. Andy shares his journey from working at a high-volume car wreck firm—what he calls "emergency law"—to becoming a medical malpractice specialist at Sawicki Law, where he eventually became partner.
Andy offers valuable insights for attorneys at various career stages, from recent graduates to those looking to transition practice areas. He discusses how his early experience handling a medical malpractice case at his first firm inadvertently set him on his current path, illustrating how seemingly negative experiences can create positive momentum in one's career. He encourages new lawyers to "listen to your grades" while not letting them define you, and to be willing to "eat dirt" in a less-than-ideal position to gain valuable experience.
Throughout the conversation, Andy explains how his medical malpractice work has transformed him into a "difficult consumer of medical services" and shares how he became an EMT to better understand the medical field. He also discusses his teaching experience as an adjunct professor at UNT Dallas and his approach to creating valuable continuing legal education content.
The episode wraps up with a philosophical discussion about decision-making, with Andy sharing his favorite Theodore Roosevelt quote and reflecting on the Japanese Bushido concept of momentum shaping one's life journey.
 

#40 Perfect Timing: How a Law Firm Dissolution Led to an Ideal Career Path

Join David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, on this Lawyers Who Learn episode as he reconnects with former law school classmate Fanny Ferdman after nearly 20 years. In this authentic conversation, Fanny shares her journey from commercial litigation to employment law, highlighting a pivotal moment in her career development.
During her time at her first firm, Robertson Freilich Bruno and Cohen, Fanny enrolled in a 10-month personal development course with Landmark Education called the "Wisdom Course." Her fiancé (now husband) Ilan, who was a coach at Landmark, suggested they take the course together with friends. Despite enjoying her colleagues at the firm, Fanny wasn't feeling fulfilled by commercial litigation work. The course provided a structured opportunity for self-reflection, prompting her to remember how much she had enjoyed her employment law class in law school.
Through this process of introspection, Fanny made an internal declaration to pursue employment law instead of continuing with commercial litigation. Remarkably, just weeks after making this decision, her firm announced it was dissolving - a rare event that forced her to seek new opportunities and ultimately led her to Epstein Becker, where she began practicing the employment law she was passionate about.
Now serving as Counsel at BakerHostetler and co-lead of their Wage and Hour Compliance Team, Fanny discusses her deliberate career choices that prioritized work-life balance. She reveals how personal development helped clarify her professional path and how she secured a rare part-time arrangement at a major law firm that she maintains to this day.
The conversation explores continuous learning through CLE courses, the challenges of business development, and finding fulfillment in one's career. David and Fanny exchange insights on setting intentions, making career pivots, and creating the professional life you truly want.

#39 Help People Help You: Creating Your Own Path in the Legal Tech Ecosystem

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Colin Levy, Director of Legal at Malbek and author of "The Legal Tech Ecosystem." Colin shares his journey from law school to becoming a legal tech specialist, educator, and thought leader. He discusses how being clear about his goals helped create opportunities—from writing a book to teaching as an adjunct professor at two law schools. Colin reflects on his career path with no regrets, though wishes he had discovered legal tech earlier. He explains how his purpose to "support, inform, and inspire others" drove him to write a book about legal tech that would be accessible to those intimidated by technical language. The conversation explores relationship building, the importance of direct communication ("help people help you"), and Colin's advice to "know thyself and listen to yourself" for career success. Throughout the episode, Colin offers insights into balancing multiple professional endeavors, including his teaching experiences and the process of writing and marketing his book. This conversation provides valuable guidance for lawyers looking to explore paths beyond traditional practice, particularly in the evolving legal tech landscape.

#38 The Therapy No One Talks About: Tapping into Your True Potential

In this insightful Lawyers Who Learn episode, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Drew Amoroso, founder of DueCourse, a lawyer development and well-being platform. After briefly summarizing Drew's impressive career journey from Reed Smith attorney to entrepreneurship, the discussion takes a deeply personal turn. Rather than focusing on Drew's career, the conversation explores topics like intentionality in daily work life, the power of therapy, and personal growth. Drew shares his seven-year experience with Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) or "tapping," a therapeutic practice that has helped him work through limiting beliefs and negative thought patterns. The conversation delves into how we process our thoughts, the difference between coaching and therapy, and the importance of finding passion in our work. Drew discusses how his experiences have shaped DueCourse's company culture, creating spaces for honest feedback and personal development. Throughout the episode, both David and Drew reflect on what drives them personally and professionally, discussing the challenges of entrepreneurship, the search for meaningful work, and finding balance between ambition and self-acceptance. The authentic, vulnerable exchange offers listeners valuable insights into mindset, personal development, and the often unspoken mental and emotional aspects of professional success.