Lawyers Who Learn

#32 The Philosophy of Legal Marketing: Stoicism, Authenticity, and Podcasting Success

This episode of Lawyers Who Learn Podcast features an insightful conversation between host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, and guest Gyi Tsakalakis, President of AttorneySync, a legal digital marketing agency and co-host of the Lunch Hour Legal Marketing podcast.
After a brief recap of Gyi's journey from computer science major to lawyer to legal marketing entrepreneur, the discussion delves into philosophical territories, with Gyi sharing how stoicism and daily gratitude practices have transformed both his perspective and family life. The conversation explores several book recommendations that have shaped Gyi's thinking, with a recurring theme of finding harmony across different aspects of life.
A significant portion of the interview focuses on the behind-the-scenes aspects of running the Lunch Hour Legal Marketing podcast since 2018, including content creation strategies, production processes, and the importance of maintaining authenticity in the age of AI. Gyi emphasizes the value of sharing genuine personal experiences rather than relying on generic AI-generated content, particularly in professional contexts.
The discussion also touches on the evolution of LinkedIn as a platform for professional networking and knowledge sharing. Throughout the episode, both speakers demonstrate a thoughtful approach to continuous learning, knowledge sharing, and building meaningful connections in the legal profession while balancing personal growth and professional development.

#31 Powering Up Your Law Practice: Thinking, Learning, Teaching

This engaging episode of "Lawyers Who Learn" features host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, in conversation with Ruby Powers, founder of Powers Law Group, an immigration law firm, and Power Up Your Practice, a law practice management consulting company. The discussion reveals Ruby's unique journey from her early personal connection to immigration issues through her mother, who was born to American missionaries in Mexico, to building her successful immigration law practice that now employs 20 staff members across multiple locations. Ruby shares how living in six different countries shaped her perspective and prepared her for her career.
The heart of the conversation explores Ruby's philosophy that "thinking, learning, and teaching" are the activities that give her the most energy and fulfillment. She discusses managing her immigration practice during politically turbulent times, comparing her work to being "a MASH doctor on the battlefield" due to the urgent needs of clients facing status changes and deportation threats. Ruby openly shares her strategies for maintaining boundaries and preventing burnout when handling traumatic asylum cases, including therapy and energy work.
The interview also delves into Ruby's entrepreneurial ventures and her two books: "Build and Manage Your Successful Immigration Law Practice Without Losing Your Mind" and her recently published second book, "Power Up Your Practice." Throughout the discussion, David and Ruby connect over their shared passion for continuous learning, discussing influential books and self-improvement practices. The conversation offers listeners a window into balancing substantive legal work with business development while maintaining personal well-being in a demanding profession.

#30 Sliding Doors: How Persistence and Chance Shaped an International Legal Career

This engaging interview features Allan Rooney, founder of a Rooney Law, that specializes in corporate law. In conversation with host David Schnurman, Allan shares his remarkable journey from Scotland to becoming a successful attorney and entrepreneur in New York.
The interview explores Allan's persistence throughout his career, from his determined efforts to secure a spot at the University of Texas during law school to navigating visa challenges that eventually led him to establish his own firm in 2007. Allan reveals how his immigration situation actually became the catalyst for entrepreneurship, and how a chance elevator meeting while holding his kilt led to securing major clients in his firm's early days.
Now leading a firm of about a dozen attorneys with 18 years in business, Allan reflects candidly on the evolution of his career, the balance between professional ambition and family life with his four sons, and his thoughtful considerations about the next chapter of his professional journey. Throughout the conversation, themes of persistence, seizing opportunity, and what Allan calls "sliding doors moments" highlight how seemingly small decisions and chance encounters can dramatically shape one's path.
The discussion provides valuable insights for attorneys, entrepreneurs, and professionals navigating international careers, while offering an authentic look at the personal values and challenges that accompany professional success.

#29 Paddling Below the Surface: The Reality of Legal Leadership

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, sits down with Jonathan Havens, head of the Cannabis Law Practice Group at Saul Ewing and managing partner of the firm's Baltimore office. Their wide-ranging conversation delves into the challenges and rewards of following a non-linear career path, the importance of authenticity in leadership, and the constant balance between planning and adaptability in the legal profession.
The discussion offers a refreshingly honest look at the mental and emotional aspects of being a leader in big law, with Jonathan candidly sharing his experiences with imposter syndrome, decision-making challenges, and the ongoing process of personal growth. As someone who describes himself as "paddling furiously underneath while appearing calm on the surface," Jonathan provides valuable insights into modern law firm management, the evolving cannabis legal industry, and the importance of maintaining work-life balance while pursuing professional excellence.
Throughout the conversation, Jonathan and David explore themes of personal development, leadership philosophy, and the value of continuous learning in the legal profession. The episode highlights how embracing uncertainty and being willing to take calculated risks can lead to unexpected but rewarding career opportunities. Jonathan also shares touching personal insights about family, community involvement, and the importance of individual time with his children, painting a picture of a leader who strives to balance professional achievement with personal fulfillment.
For legal professionals at any stage of their career, this episode offers valuable perspectives on building a successful practice while maintaining authenticity and pursuing personal growth. The conversation demonstrates that even accomplished leaders continue to learn, adapt, and seek ways to improve themselves and their organizations.

#28 When the Library Burns Down: From Crisis to Legal Wellness Pioneer

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, sits down with Prof. Rebecca Simon Green, a pioneer in lawyers and law school wellness. What begins as a discussion about their wellness consultancy, she runs with her husband Jarrett Green evolves into a profound exploration of Rebecca's remarkable journey - from a high-achieving UC Berkeley graduate and perfectionist law school dropout contemplating suicide to becoming an award-winning voice in legal education and attorney wellbeing.
The conversation takes an unexpected turn when both host and guest vulnerably share their experiences of recently losing parents, creating a powerful dialogue about mortality, legacy, and the complex relationship between parent and child. Through candid discussions about anxiety, the impact of breathing techniques, and the mysterious ways loved ones remain present after passing, they offer insights into healing and personal growth that resonate far beyond their professional expertise.
Originally planned to cover their consultancy's success and Rebecca's impactful book on law school happiness and performance, the episode instead delivers an intimate meditation on transformation, mental health, mindful parenting, and grief. Their authentic exchange demonstrates how personal struggles, when openly shared, can become a source of wisdom and connection for others in the legal community and beyond.

#27 From Basketball to the Boardroom: A Journey of Constant Transformation

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Emerson Moore, former basketball player turned corporate lawyer, who shares his fascinating journey from Michigan basketball walk-on to General Counsel and Chief People Officer. Moore, who originally went to law school wanting to be 'the Black Jerry Maguire,' discusses his evolution through various high-profile roles, including his time at Proskauer Rose, TMP Worldwide (now Radancy), and the Brooklyn Nets.
The conversation delves deep into career transitions, work-life balance, and the importance of knowing when it's time to move on. Moore candidly shares his experience of stepping away from law temporarily, taking a transformative 13-month sabbatical, and ultimately returning to his legal roots as General Counsel at Jazz at Lincoln Center. His insights on balancing professional success with personal fulfillment, particularly his commitment to being present for his children, offer valuable lessons for lawyers at all career stages.
Throughout the episode, Moore discusses the intersection of his analytical and creative mindsets, the value of radical candor in professional relationships, and how he manages stress through meditation, CrossFit, and maintaining work-life harmony. His unique perspective as both a legal professional and HR executive provides fascinating insights into the human side of corporate law and leadership.

#26 How New York Law School is Training Tomorrow's GCs

In this engaging episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman sits down with Michael Pastor, who leads two groundbreaking initiatives at New York Law School: the Tricarico Institute and the Innovation Center for Law and Technology. A former General Counsel for NYC's Department of Information Technology and Telecommunications and NYC Cyber Command, Pastor shares his fascinating journey from city government to academia, where he's revolutionizing how law students prepare for in-house counsel careers.
Through candid conversation, Pastor discusses the innovative approaches he's implementing at New York Law School, including simulation-based learning and a mini-MBA program that bridges the gap between legal education and business acumen. He offers valuable insights on career transitions, leadership development, and the evolving landscape of legal technology. The discussion extends beyond traditional legal education to explore work-life balance, the impact of AI on the legal profession, and the importance of continuous learning.
Whether you're a law student, practicing attorney considering an in-house role, or legal professional interested in the intersection of law, technology, and education, this episode provides practical wisdom and inspiring perspectives on building a meaningful legal career while maintaining personal fulfillment.

#25 The Art of Legal Storytelling: From Fifty Shades to Stand-Up Comedy

This engaging episode of "Lawyers Who Learn" features a conversation between host David Schnurman and Brent, a business litigation and entertainment lawyer at Bell Nunnally in Dallas. The discussion reveals Brent's fascinating journey from ESPN production to law, highlighting how his media background has shaped his approach to legal storytelling.
The conversation explores Brent's innovative approach to continuing legal education, including his popular courses "Ethics Lessons from HBO's Succession" and "Ethics from Suits." Brent shares how he transforms traditionally dry ethics content into engaging presentations by incorporating popular culture references and storytelling techniques. He also discusses his experience working on the high-profile Fifty Shades of Grey litigation case, where he learned valuable lessons about legal storytelling from his mentor Mike Farris, who taught him to present legal arguments in clear, straightforward language that anyone could understand.
Throughout the episode, Brent offers insights into balancing a demanding legal career with personal pursuits, including his recent venture into stand-up comedy at open mic nights during business trips. He discusses the challenges of managing stress, the importance of physical exercise, and finding time for family commitments while maintaining a successful legal practice.
The discussion provides valuable lessons about the power of creative presentation in legal work, the importance of finding one's authentic style in the courtroom, and how lessons from entertainment and media can enhance legal practice. Brent's energy and positive attitude shine through as he shares practical advice for lawyers looking to break free from traditional approaches to legal practice and presentation.

#24 Why Your Role Should Be Unrecognizable in 18 Months

This podcast episode of Lawyers Who Learn features an engaging conversation between host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, and Jennifer Hill, CEO of ThoughtRiver, an AI-powered contract review company. The discussion delves into Hill's fascinating journey from teaching public speaking as a college freshman to becoming a lawyer and tech executive. As a longtime Lawline customer, Hill shares personal stories about how continuing legal education has impacted both her professional and personal life, including a compelling account of how a CLE course helped her advocate for her child during a school bullying incident.
The conversation explores Hill's experiences in Silicon Valley, her work supporting women entrepreneurs in New York's emerging tech scene, and her path to leading ThoughtRiver. She offers valuable insights about professional growth, including her "6-month and 18-month rule" for career development, and shares perspectives on AI's role in making legal services more accessible. The discussion is enriched by Hill's international background, as she reflects on how travel and cross-cultural experiences have shaped her outlook and leadership style.
Throughout the interview, Hill emphasizes the importance of continuous learning and embracing change, particularly in the context of AI adoption. The podcast concludes with a discussion about Lawline's future plans for AI integration and Hill's encouraging advice for lawyers looking to adapt to technological change: "Don't start with perfect. Just start." The conversation provides a rich exploration of the intersection between legal practice, technology, and lifelong learning.

#23 Raised $2.5M in 30 Days, Sold Her Company, Then Everything Changed.

Lawyers Who Learn podcast features an in-depth conversation between host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, and Haley Altman, a remarkable figure in legal tech who has successfully navigated multiple career transitions. The episode explores Haley's journey from aspiring doctor and cancer researcher to corporate lawyer, legal tech founder, and M&A executive.
Starting with her early pivot from medicine to law, Haley shares how her love of learning and problem-solving drove her career choices. She discusses her decade as an M&A attorney, becoming one of the fastest partners at Ice Miller, and then founding Doxly, which she later sold to Litera. The conversation provides unique insights into her transition to heading M&A at Litera, where she leveraged her extensive network in the legal tech community to complete multiple acquisitions.
Throughout the discussion, Haley opens up about balancing her professional achievements with personal life, including raising two daughters as a single parent. The conversation takes an intimate turn as both host and guest reflect on work-life balance, the importance of acknowledging one's accomplishments, and finding personal freedom alongside professional success. The episode concludes with Haley sharing her multiple potential next steps, both professionally and personally, highlighting her continued drive for growth and new experiences.