Lawyers Who Learn

Jon Krop made a decision that would terrify most lawyers: he quit his tech job at 30 and spent seven months in silent meditation at a teacher's center in Arizona. Living in a yurt, no phone, no talking, no reading—just meditation and twice-weekly check-ins with his teacher. What he discovered didn't just transform his relationship with ADHD and anxiety; it set him on an unexpected path toward helping legal professionals cultivate wellbeing.
In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores Jon's journey from Harvard Law student managing ADHD through medication and meditation to becoming CEO of Flourish Legal Wellbeing. Jon candidly discusses how his seven-month retreat rewired his brain so significantly that his medication stopped working the same way—and why he recently got a prescription again anyway, challenging simplistic narratives about wellness cures.
When Jon returned from retreat, he went back to working at a law firm while teaching his first mindfulness workshop that same weekend. He spent a year and a half doing both before his wellbeing work grew enough to become full-time. Today, Flourish has evolved from Jon's solo practice into a team of lawyer-turned-experts delivering everything from nutrition counseling to financial wellness across major law firms, with 75% of programming delivered virtually.
The conversation reveals Jon's ongoing practice of two months of silent retreat annually, his thoughts on why silence brings immediate relief rather than torture, and how humor becomes essential when discussing serious mental health topics. For legal professionals drowning in stress or curious about meditation beyond the hype, Jon offers a refreshingly honest perspective on what contemplative practice actually demands—and delivers.

As Director of Client Intelligence at Sidley Austin, Rachel Shields Williams transforms messy relationship data into strategic intelligence, tracking how former general counsels become clients, then expert witnesses, then something else entirely. 
In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores how Rachel evolved from a marketing coordinator to President-Elect of the Legal Marketing Association. Her path began with a family business running golf courses and led through ten years in marketing before discovering her calling at the intersection of data, storytelling, and change management.
Rachel reveals why law firms desperately need storytellers and change agents as AI transforms the industry. Her role tracking Fortune 100 clients goes beyond traditional CRM, mapping former general counsels, competing law firms, and relationship evolution across systems to build 360-degree intelligence dashboards.
She explains why lawyers should embrace firm technology, and why holding emotional space for change matters more than racing toward efficiency. From her year-long executive program in change management to her Lego-building meditation practice, Rachel demonstrates how humanist skills become professional advantages in an increasingly technical world.

Julie Remer spent years as a practicing attorney secretly struggling with ADHD she didn't know she had. Then her five-year-old daughter's diagnosis sparked a revelation: those challenges she'd been white-knuckling through her entire legal career were actually neurological differences shared by 25% of law students today.
In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores Julie's evolution from an attorney hiding her struggles to founder of Amicus Coaching, where she helps neurodivergent lawyers transform perceived weaknesses into strategic advantages.
Julie reveals the perfect storm that brings lawyers to her door: billing struggles, communication breakdowns, and executive function challenges that intensify as attorneys advance from associate to partner. She shares her airport medication mishap, losing her scarf, boarding pass, and Starbucks in one chaotic trip, which perfectly illustrates life without treatment.
The conversation tackles critical questions: When is ADHD medication necessary versus optional? How do you distinguish between modern distraction and genuine neurodivergence? Why do high-achieving lawyers hit walls after years of successful coping? Julie offers practical frameworks including the power of morning routines over reactive email checking, why billing struggles signal deeper issues, and how understanding dopamine processing explains impulse control challenges. She demonstrates how neurodivergent traits like hyper-focus and creative thinking become superpowers in the right legal practice areas.

Amy Goodson could memorize entire speeches as a child and loved performing on stage—skills that seemed destined for communication work. She was also a dancer and loved exercise as a teen. This love for exercise led to an interest in nutrition, personally and professionally. From a communications degree to a double masters in exercise and sports nutrition, Amy’s 20-year career path has been all about marrying the two together to provide science-backed, practical information to the public.
In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman speaks with Amy, a registered dietitian who now runs three distinct businesses while traveling six trips in a single month. Amy works with major law firms like Haynes and Boone, where she discovered something surprising: highly successful attorneys often approach nutrition the same way they tackle everything else—by overthinking it. Her solution cuts through the noise with ruthlessly practical strategies that busy professionals can actually implement.
Amy's framework centers on a counterintuitive truth: consistent small habits outperform dramatic overhauls every time. She calls it the "compound effect"—the same principle that builds successful legal careers builds sustainable wellness. Rather than advocating extreme protocols like intermittent fasting for active professionals, Amy focuses on stabilizing blood sugar through strategic carbohydrate-protein pairings that maintain focus during marathon court sessions.
From her 4:30 AM workout routine to her creature-of-habit approach to meals, Amy embodies the discipline she teaches. Her media training—refined through fifteen separate trainings—translates complex nutritional science into sound bites that stick. This conversation offers attorneys a blueprint for sustaining peak performance without sacrificing the energy that makes them effective advocates.

Jonathan Schutrum's intellectual transformation began during COVID lockdown on nightly walks with his dog through Buffalo's winter streets. While the world shut down, the insurance defense attorney discovered philosophy podcasts that fundamentally changed how he approached legal practice. What started as curiosity evolved into a deliberate framework: treating mental fitness with the same rigor as physical training.
In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, explores how Schutrum applies ancient wisdom to modern insurance defense work at Dickie, McCamey & Chilcote. From Marcus Aurelius's Meditations to German philosopher Martin Heidegger's phenomenology, he views diverse intellectual pursuits as essential cross-training for the legal mind. His logic is compelling—lawyers already possess the analytical skills philosophy demands, so strengthening those muscles outside the courtroom makes you sharper inside it.
Schutrum's approach extends beyond philosophy into deliberate cognitive expansion. When a Germany trip sparked intensive language learning, he discovered it offered the same mental benefits—taking him outside daily worries while exercising different parts of his mind. His visit to the unchanged Nuremberg trial courtroom, with its original 1945 leather chairs and wood paneling, reinforced how thinking across centuries and disciplines enhances legal perspective. He even applies this principle to his work soundtrack, comparing Richard Wagner's complex orchestrations—where multiple sections play different themes that converge into one melody—to managing the simultaneous elements of complex cases.
As a Lawline faculty member teaching medical malpractice and strategic depositions, Schutrum embodies his core philosophy: teaching reinforces learning. His framework of "habit stacking"—layering new learning onto existing routines like podcast listening during dog walks—offers attorneys a practical path to compounding professional growth through intentional mental cross-training.
 

Karen Munoz spent nearly a decade at a personal injury firm, rising from receptionist to managing partner while handling wrongful death cases and winning multi-million dollar verdicts. But beneath the external success, she was slowly losing herself. Then yoga, recovery, and a master's degree in counseling psychology changed everything. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman sits down with Karen to explore her transformation from personal injury attorney to trauma-informed wellness coach. As a first-generation Mexican-American who graduated from UIC School of Law in 2008, Karen never felt she fit the traditional lawyer mold. While classmates competed ruthlessly, she focused on genuinely helping clients through their darkest moments—sitting with them without notebooks or computers, offering full presence in a profession built on multitasking. Karen's parallel path began when she walked into her first yoga class as a young attorney and discovered a practice that would save her life. By 2010, she was writing about mindfulness for the Chicago Daily Law Bulletin and teaching yoga to lawyers through the Lawyer's Assistance Program—long before wellness became mainstream in legal circles. In 2021, five years into recovery, she formalized this work by founding Roaring Grace Mindful Wellness. Now pursuing her master's in counseling psychology while also teaching CLE courses on Lawline, Karen bridges ancient wisdom and modern legal challenges. She explains how trauma lives in the body, shares Viktor Frankl's concentration camp-born philosophy on finding meaning, and delivers a powerful message to struggling attorneys: you're not alone, and the light you're searching for already exists within you.

Colin Lachance's journey began at age 10, when a fateful summer camp experience introduced him to law as society's "cheat code." That early exposure launched a decades-long career from telecom regulatory law to becoming an entrepreneur determined to prevent lawyers from being left behind by AI.
In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores Colin's unconventional path to founding LawQi, a platform on a mission to upskill 100,000 attorneys on AI fundamentals before it's too late. After managing the Canadian Legal Information Institute, Canada's most-used legal research resource, Colin recognized an urgent problem: attorneys have a shrinking window to understand how AI works at its core before being relegated to using narrow tools without comprehension.
His solution? An interactive sandbox called LawQi, where lawyers learn by doing, guided by an AI assistant trained on the course materials. Colin's contrarian approach challenges traditional legal education. Forgoing CLE accreditation, he charges bar associations as little as $1 per member annually, reflecting his mission-driven focus on impact over revenue.
The conversation reveals Colin's unconventional entrepreneurial philosophy—intentionally building a business with a limited lifespan, capping growth at 10 employees, and measuring success by transformation rather than typical venture metrics. His goal is to reach 100,000 lawyers by 2030, building trust to navigate whatever comes next in an unpredictable AI landscape.
Colin's journey serves as a wake-up call for legal professionals witnessing AI's rapid integration across research and practice management tools, as demonstrated in Jack Newton's pivotal Clio keynote that left 2,500 lawyers uncomfortably silent about their future. His story urges attorneys to proactively upskill before the window of opportunity closes.

Clarissa Dominguez couldn’t shake the feeling that traditional therapy was keeping her stuck. Despite years of Western treatment for borderline personality disorder—and pouring most of her 401(k) into healing a chronic illness—she kept cycling through the same emotional patterns.
So she did something most lawyers would never risk:
She walked away from her BigLaw career for an entire year to study neuroscience coaching and rebuild herself from the inside out.
In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman speaks with Clarissa — now Professional Development Manager at BakerHostetler — about transforming personal crisis into professional expertise. She designs neuroscience-based leadership programs for Baker’s groundbreaking Business Development Coaching Program, a year-long coaching experience focused on growth, performance, and purpose. Clarissa also partners with The Honor Foundation, coaching transitioning special operations leaders as they move from mission-driven service to purpose-driven civilian life.
After co-presenting at PDC with Harvard Law Professor Scott Westfahl on The Awakened Brain and purpose-driven leadership, Clarissa now brings flow-state science, nervous system regulation, and spiritual anchoring into BigLaw’s achievement-obsessed culture.
Clarissa’s work addresses what she calls the integration crisis in legal practice:
Lawyers climb the ladder of billable hours and business development while ignoring the emotional incidents accumulating along the way. This disconnect between intellectual achievement and emotional wellbeing produces high-functioning attorneys who don’t know who they are anymore.
Her stance is bold: Lawyers need spiritual grounding—reflection, stillness, prayer, community—not just training and productivity hacks. Especially now, as AI begins reshaping the profession and the value of being human becomes the competitive edge.
This conversation offers practical neuroscience-backed tools for legal professionals who feel stuck in chronic stress, achievement addiction, or the exhausting pursuit of external validation.

Michael Grupp started his legal career at Freshfields and Hogan Lovells before founding Bryter, a workflow automation platform he calls "Lego for lawyers." Over the years he has raised $90 million, leads 100 employees across three continents, and teaches at Goethe University. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores Grupp's journey from Big Law associate to legal tech entrepreneur navigating the chaos of AI transformation. Based in Frankfurt, Germany, Grupp has built a company that turns repetitive legal processes into automated enterprise apps without requiring lawyers to write code. His approach to legal tech and the ups and downs of legal tech life is humour, and endurance sports. “Don’t take yourself too seriously”, he advocates, and proposes to do sports that get you to your limits. “Laughing and triathlons will keep you on the ground.” His contrarian views extend to legal education, where he teaches in Germany's eight-year training system that prepares lawyers to be judges—a career 95% won't pursue. With AI automating research and drafting, Grupp advocates radical reform: less memorization, more focus on project management, client relationships, and business skills law schools ignore. He shifts between two views of AI's impact: either lawyers drastically underestimate the irreplaceable human work they do, or the industry faces real contraction as 20-30% of billable work disappears. The conversation reveals lessons from "The Culture Code," which transformed how Grupp builds teams, and his Ironman training, which taught him that consistency beats talent—just showing up is most of the battle.

Marc W. Halpert encountered the same paralyzing problem across professions: all struggling to talk about themselves despite extraordinary credentials. The pattern was universal—high achievers frozen by fear, worried about sounding "too out there," dragging themselves through the mud instead of showcasing their value.
In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman sits down with Marc, a serial entrepreneur turned LinkedIn branding strategist who helps attorneys break free from the psycho-cultural programming that keeps them invisible.
Marc's philosophy cuts against conventional wisdom: you're not bragging when you share your expertise—you're serving your future clients by helping them understand why you do what you do. His "know, feel, believe, do" framework transforms LinkedIn from a digital resume into a strategic platform for authentic professional visibility.
The conversation reveals why legal professionals particularly struggle with self-promotion, how Marc teaches without slides to promote authentic expertise, and his counterintuitive advice on consistency of original content—post when you have something important to say, not according to arbitrary schedules. From his two published books to teaching at major law firms, Marc demonstrates how authentic visibility creates opportunity without the aggressive selling lawyers fear. For professionals stuck between imposter syndrome and the fear of appearing salesy, this episode offers strategies to finally let your value bubble up.